Presidential Elections

Talk amongst yourselves.

Who do you support?

Obama
5
50%
Clinton
1
10%
Edwards
1
10%
McCain
0
No votes
Romney
0
No votes
Huckabee
1
10%
Giuliani
1
10%
Paul
1
10%
Other/ Don't care
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 10

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EverclearGTFABA
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Presidential Elections

Post by EverclearGTFABA » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:18 pm

Who do you support?

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stupid happy
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Post by stupid happy » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:05 am

Obama. Clinton's part of the old school political machine whose only real "change" in this campaign is a bra (yeah, a bold statement for a chick to make), there's nobody in the Republican party that I trust (although I have great admiration for John McCain), and John Edwards, while a seemingly very nice man, isn't electable, nationally.

I am so disgusted by politicians, at this point, that Obama's lack of decades served in the Senate is actually refreshing, to me.
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Post by EverclearGTFABA » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:41 pm

stupid happy wrote:Obama. Clinton's part of the old school political machine whose only real "change" in this campaign is a bra (yeah, a bold statement for a chick to make), there's nobody in the Republican party that I trust (although I have great admiration for John McCain), and John Edwards, while a seemingly very nice man, isn't electable, nationally.

I am so disgusted by politicians, at this point, that Obama's lack of decades served in the Senate is actually refreshing, to me.
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Post by ekeown » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:45 am

As an outsider looking in can either of you explain to me that Obama stands for? Everything I've seen, campaign trail speeches, interviews, etc... all he does is talk about change, and hope; there are comparisons to JFK, and all around sense of "feel-goodery" ( © 2007 Eric Keown) . That's great, but what I'm seeing is missing substance. To me there is more focus on his possible future legacy, then there is on what he wants his legacy to be, or how he is going to get around to achieving it.

The recent debates seem to be a cat fight between himself and Hillary (everyone forgets about poor ol' John Edwards). Come to think about it, those bickering catty debates don't show me any change, in fact it's the same old primary campaign party in-fighting, possibly even worse than normal. For a man preaching that he's all about change he's not going about it the best way to show how he's different.

Oh but don't think for a second I'm subversively promoting Hillary. I completely agree that she is too much of a politician. I don't think she actually cares about how she feels on any issue, but rather looks at how her vote will effect her. I want a leader that believes in what they are choosing, not focusing on which way the wind blows. I mentioned to my dad that a lot of people disliked Bill Clinton, just like a lot of people disliked George W Bush now. Yet for all the people who hate Bush, you really don't hear much about people disliking Laura Bush, yet Hillary is very disliked among some people. It's pretty hard for people to hate a first lady, and it says a lot to me that Hillary is so polarizing.

I can't put my finger on Edwards problems...he just doesn't seem presidential enough, I can't explain it though. Maybe if he had a run as VP I'd feel differently. I mean even at this stage he's all but forgotten in 3rd place.

McCain, as much as I want to like the man, he leaves a bad taste in my mouth. In 2000 he was, pretty much the republican party rebel when he had his try for the nomination, and man that had conviction, and didn't fall in line just because the party told him to. Over time, he went from a point where it some time seemed he opposed the party just because he wanted to, to being a figurehead of quelling opposition (i.e. "well even John McCain approves this bill, so you know it is good"), to pretty much being a mouthpiece of the party. Maybe the Republican party has changed to be more in line with McCain's political philosophy, or he has changed over time, but I really doubt both of those. I'm left wondering which is the real John McCain, the man of the people, the middle of the line guy, or the party mouthpiece. I'm not sure which he really is, but since I'm doubting who he is either way, I can't vote for someone who I think is, or was trying to con the country by being something they aren't. That aside, he'd be the oldest man ever elected, and he's stated that he'll probably only server one term. Well, I don't want to elect anyone who doesn't want to be in for both terms.

Huckabee seems to be running on the simple fact that he's religious, that just doesn't cut it for me. Add that to his tactless acts (making a gift registry when he was moving out of the governor's mansion ), and fund misappropriations in Arkansas makes him a joke in my book.

Ron Paul...I'll refrain from commenting too much on him, I know I could go on forever. The simple fact that the man believes that the Federal Reserve is an illegal entity and we should move off a fiat based currency system to a gold standard is laughable. The fact that so many people, youth especially, seem to be indoctrinated with his beliefs, many of whom have vivid conspiracy theories really scares me.

I don't feel I know enough about Romney too comment. I do think his politics are too conservative to do real good for the country in the current state though.

Giuliani is the most moderate of all of the listed candidates, being the most liberal out of the conservative group. I think he's more of what the country needs, someone who can meet everyone on the middle ground rather than adding to the already polarized political state. To me it's not promise of change that is needed, but rather balance, cooperation, and negotiation. That's how a real impact is made. However unless things turnaround I don't think he'll even get the party nomination.

I'd like to point out that, for the most part, I've stayed away from any real political commentary. This is because candidates and parties change, especially after the primaries, and they all do a small revision. To me, at this point it's the character and actions of the candidates that is important now.
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Post by stupid happy » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:05 am

ekeown wrote:Oh but don't think for a second I'm subversively promoting Hillary. I completely agree that she is too much of a politician. I don't think she actually cares about how she feels on any issue, but rather looks at how her vote will effect her. I want a leader that believes in what they are choosing, not focusing on which way the wind blows.
I think you hit on "the thing" that makes me want Obama to be our next president as much as I do. When he speaks, you don't get the feeling that he's about to bend you over and screw you...I think his hopes for the country are what this country needs so much, after 8 years of the destruction of everything that was idyllic when Bush took office. Sometimes, there's a gut-check that happens with voters, and that instinct is what propels them toward a particular candidate. I distinctly remember that gut-check i had back in '04, when this junior senator from Illinois with the funny name I'd never heard of before stood up and spoke at the DNC before introducing Kerry. My jaw literally dropped, and I thought, "Remember this moment...this guy is going to be president one day." I guess what I'm trying to say is that politics is an emotional issue for a lot of people, and emotions such as hope, particularly in this day and age, are pretty important. I don't get that from anyone else out there -- except Obama. He's just different, even if he does show his political side every now and then by getting caught up in bickering during a debate. The substance will come...at least I "hope" so (there's that word again!). But trust is the issue for me this election, and the only one I trust to unite the country and do great things is Obama.

As for concrete plans, few politicians will give you in-depth "substance" on such things as the economy, or the make-up of his/her cabinet before they are named the nominee, which is probably one of the reasons why there doesn't seem to be a lot of "substance" in many of the candidates' rhetoric.

You've done well to point out the various differences with the candidates, and honestly I agree with most of your observations, Eric. Just not the Guiliani one. He's untrustworthy. And to be fair, I don't think Bush is an evil man...I just think he is more suited to be Baseball's commissioner than president.

As for "feel-goodery" ( © 2007 Eric Keown) -- thank GOD you did that, because I know that Stephen Colbert routinely scans H&H looking for good material -- now you can prove he's stolen your new word, if it ever comes up! ;)
Last edited by stupid happy on Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by stupid happy » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:07 am

EverclearGTFABA wrote: Marry me.
i've never tried polygamy, but what the hell -- i'll give it a go...besides, the only thing that could be better than having one husband from upstate NY is TWO from there! :) and aren't you a Springsteen fan??? or was that H&H's "Rob?" Sprintsteen fans are ALWAYS good marriage material! ;)
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Post by ekeown » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:03 pm

stupid happy wrote: When he speaks, you don't get the feeling that he's about to bend you over and screw you...I think his hopes for the country are what this country needs so much, after 8 years of the destruction of everything that was idyllic when Bush took office. Sometimes, there's a gut-check that happens with voters, and that instinct is what propels them toward a particular candidate. I distinctly remember that gut-check i had back in '04, when this junior senator from Illinois with the funny name I'd never heard of before stood up and spoke at the DNC before introducing Kerry. My jaw literally dropped, and I thought, "Remember this moment...this guy is going to be president one day." I guess what I'm trying to say is that politics is an emotional issue for a lot of people, and emotions such as hope, particularly in this day and age, are pretty important. I don't get that from anyone else out there -- except Obama. He's just different, even if he does show his political side every now and then by getting caught up in bickering during a debate. The substance will come...at least I "hope" so (there's that word again!). But trust is the issue for me this election, and the only one I trust to unite the country and do great things is Obama.
I think it's because he's a relative newcomer, and I don't know where he stands. I'm not worried that his lack of experience will be an issue if elected, but I am worried that he's not really letting me know what he stands for. At least the other candidates are saying what they stand for. He is definitely charismatic and inspirational, there is no denying that. But, so is someone like Tony Robbins, that doesn't mean they should be elected. Granted that is an extreme example, and Obama has at least been in the national political spotlight for the last 4 years, but still he hasn't come out to establish who he is in my eyes. For me, I need to get to know the candidate before they become the nomination.
stupid happy wrote:As for concrete plans, few politicians will give you in-depth "substance" on such things as the economy, or the make-up of his/her cabinet before they are named the nominee, which is probably one of the reasons why there doesn't seem to be a lot of "substance" in many of the candidates' rhetoric.
I realize that they won't name a cabinet, but I at least need to know where you are coming from. From my perspective, Obama spends more time saying he represents change, etc then actually giving a concrete example of what "change" encompasses. I mean bringing change could be something as basic as he is bringing change, simply because he would be the first non-white president...that's technically change. I want to love the guy, he's definitely got a great presence, but he's just not outlining what I need to hear to make a decision either way. To me, it seems like a lot of people are just lining up and drinking the kool-aid, and I'm standing there questioning why?
stupid happy wrote: You've done well to point out the various differences with the candidates, and honestly I agree with most of your observations, Eric. Just not the Guiliani one. He's untrustworthy. And to be fair, I don't think Bush is an evil man...I just think he is more suited to be Baseball's commissioner than president.
Well thank you, you know I'm not proclaiming I'm 100% and know the answers these are just my opinions. I guess I don't see Guiliani as untrustworthy, I see him as pretty determined and goes after what he wants. I'd like to flat out state I don't feel he was a hero of 9/11. The heroes of 9/11 were individuals making snap decisions, decisions that risked there lives yet saves others. No, I'm basing my opinion on the basis that he is more moderate than anyone else running, and what he did for the city of New York, pre-911, and his work on the Mafia Commission Trial.
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Post by stupid happy » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:44 pm

what'd Biden say about Rudy? so far, it was the best line of the campaign...something like, "he uses a noun, a verb and 9/11."

i guess i feel more informed about Obama and his stances because i've gone to his Web site since his Feb. '07 announcement that he was officially throwing his hat into the ring, and i get the ongoing e-mails about his ideas, etc. -- but to your point, all of the soundbytes that get on the news have him talking about "his plan," but there isn't a lot of detail. there are several NYT articles that have been written where he discusses his economic plans, his war plans, etc., and much of his concrete ideas make it into print. the New Yorker is another good source, if you're looking for depth. but right now, his positions aren't anything too shocking or different from what edwards and clinton are proposing. there are minor differences here and there between the three candidates, but nothing between all of them that screams "unique." basically, if you know where Hillary stands and where Edwards stands on an issue, you'll basically know where Obama stands, with minor tweaking in between the lines. so, by that standard, out of the three democrats, he's by leaps and bounds the one i'd trust the most with my vote, based on the stances that he has taken.

remember -- the mainstays of articles and the tv soundbytes will never give you the substance...for that, you have to listen to an entire speech, or read the position papers online. nobody ever learns anything these days from the press -- and i'm a card-carrying member!
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Post by EverclearGTFABA » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:24 pm

Hell yes I am a Springsteen fan.


And for anyone interested in Barack Obama, check out his book The Audacity of Hope. It really is fantastic.

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Post by stupid happy » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:14 am

It is, as is his first book.
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Post by stupid happy » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:14 am

here's an article that embodies why Guiliani is such an unattractive candidate to me: it ran last week in the NYT:

The New York Times

January 22, 2008
The Long Run
In Matters Big and Small, Crossing Giuliani Had Price
By MICHAEL POWELL and RUSS BUETTNER


Rudolph W. Giuliani likens himself to a boxer who never takes a punch without swinging back. As mayor, he made the vengeful roundhouse an instrument of government, clipping anyone who crossed him.

In August 1997, James Schillaci, a rough-hewn chauffeur from the Bronx, dialed Mayor Giuliani’s radio program on WABC-AM to complain about a red-light sting run by the police near the Bronx Zoo. When the call yielded no results, Mr. Schillaci turned to The Daily News, which then ran a photo of the red light and this front page headline: “GOTCHA!â€
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Post by stupid happy » Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:09 pm

and the latest installment of the NYT...all if can say is "wow." talk about the psychological, emotional tie that should never be discounted in presidential politics....

January 27, 2008
Op-Ed Contributor
A President Like My Father
By CAROLINE KENNEDY


OVER the years, I’ve been deeply moved by the people who’ve told me they wished they could feel inspired and hopeful about America the way people did when my father was president. This sense is even more profound today. That is why I am supporting a presidential candidate in the Democratic primaries, Barack Obama.

My reasons are patriotic, political and personal, and the three are intertwined. All my life, people have told me that my father changed their lives, that they got involved in public service or politics because he asked them to. And the generation he inspired has passed that spirit on to its children. I meet young people who were born long after John F. Kennedy was president, yet who ask me how to live out his ideals.

Sometimes it takes a while to recognize that someone has a special ability to get us to believe in ourselves, to tie that belief to our highest ideals and imagine that together we can do great things. In those rare moments, when such a person comes along, we need to put aside our plans and reach for what we know is possible.

We have that kind of opportunity with Senator Obama. It isn’t that the other candidates are not experienced or knowledgeable. But this year, that may not be enough. We need a change in the leadership of this country — just as we did in 1960.

Most of us would prefer to base our voting decision on policy differences. However, the candidates’ goals are similar. They have all laid out detailed plans on everything from strengthening our middle class to investing in early childhood education. So qualities of leadership, character and judgment play a larger role than usual.

Senator Obama has demonstrated these qualities throughout his more than two decades of public service, not just in the United States Senate but in Illinois, where he helped turn around struggling communities, taught constitutional law and was an elected state official for eight years. And Senator Obama is showing the same qualities today. He has built a movement that is changing the face of politics in this country, and he has demonstrated a special gift for inspiring young people — known for a willingness to volunteer, but an aversion to politics — to become engaged in the political process.

I have spent the past five years working in the New York City public schools and have three teenage children of my own. There is a generation coming of age that is hopeful, hard-working, innovative and imaginative. But too many of them are also hopeless, defeated and disengaged. As parents, we have a responsibility to help our children to believe in themselves and in their power to shape their future. Senator Obama is inspiring my children, my parents’ grandchildren, with that sense of possibility.

Senator Obama is running a dignified and honest campaign. He has spoken eloquently about the role of faith in his life, and opened a window into his character in two compelling books. And when it comes to judgment, Barack Obama made the right call on the most important issue of our time by opposing the war in Iraq from the beginning.

I want a president who understands that his responsibility is to articulate a vision and encourage others to achieve it; who holds himself, and those around him, to the highest ethical standards; who appeals to the hopes of those who still believe in the American Dream, and those around the world who still believe in the American ideal; and who can lift our spirits, and make us believe again that our country needs every one of us to get involved.

I have never had a president who inspired me the way people tell me that my father inspired them. But for the first time, I believe I have found the man who could be that president — not just for me, but for a new generation of Americans.

Caroline Kennedy is the author of “A Patriot’s Handbook: Songs, Poems, Stories and Speeches Celebrating the Land We Love.â€
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Post by stupid happy » Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:43 pm

EverclearGTFABA wrote:Hell yes I am a Springsteen fan.


And for anyone interested in Barack Obama, check out his book The Audacity of Hope. It really is fantastic.
and FYI, after i'd turned off my computer after you reminded me about "Audacity," i dug it out and began reading it the next day, during a marathon appointment where my participation was next-to-nothing. yet again, i couldn't put it down, and wound up reading the whole thing AGAIN. what truly gets to me is his descriptions about his first days in Washington, and about going up to Sen. Robert Byrd's office and talking to him, like everyone encouraged him to do...and him sitting back, listening to this nearly 90-year-old man speak, and realizing that once upon a time, he was a member of the KKK, but decided that things like honor and equality and the Constitution meant so much more to him than any hate group ever could....

well, suffice it to say, I've thought a lot about that portion of the book this week, particularly after watching Obama's response to the criticism over his former pastor's VERY inappropriate and controversial sermons.... and i am just convinced, more than ever, that as Bill Richardson said today as he got choked up announcing his endorsement, this kind of candidate only comes along once in a lifetime.

i have waited all of my adult life for a candidate as honest and dedicated to ideals that EVERYONE can stand for, and it's Obama. he is everything that is *right* and *good* about this country. and he is the only candidate that i believe with every fiber of my being will act in my country's best interest, at all times.

anyway...just re-found this thread, and thought i'd blather for a while. 8)
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Post by Silver Ginger » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:16 am

I, like many 'foreigners' I'm sure, have been watching this whole election run up with great interest.
I feel so positive about Obama, and I honestly never thought I'd see a black man( and one who is there on merit, and not purely for the colour of his skin) in the Presidential running, let alone have the potential to win.
I'm so excited to hear the outcome today, so God knows, how you must all be feeling!!
Anyway, I just wanted to say, I'm thinking of you all, and I truly hope you get the outcome you wish for.

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Post by LoserFreak » Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:18 pm

I've been working for the Obama campaign here in Indiana, Pa. We had Ed Rendell in last week, and in the spring semester Ron Paul and Bill Clinton stopped by. Granted, it was for their own campaign (Bill for Hillary...) but it was all pretty hectic. Oh, and Max Kennedy stopped in, too.
I woke up early and made it to the booth around 8am, and the campus is blustering with Obama supporters. The sad thing is, we're in western Pa and that politician hit the nail pretty straight on the head... This place is racist. Hell, even a good number of the students loathe the Obama campaign; I've been called several names which I won't mention here, and have been involved in more than one argument in my classes. I can't believe how much misinformation there is out there.
Most of my friends are in strong support of Barack, and we're all stressing out over this election. McCain's was decent, but his newer positions and his all around disrespectful campaign completely turned me off. I also cannot stand to hear Palin speak. Honestly, the more I learn about her the less I like her and I can think of no redeeming qualities.
I just hope that once Obama's healthcare plans kick in people will realize that universal health care isn't the communist devil and that'll follow. I'm also glad to see someone not support the Trickle-down theory and finally give tax breaks to people who need them.
Anyway, GoObama!

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